College Athletics NIL with Ryan Henington

Welcome to the Leading Lane podcast for Real Estate Pros by Real Estate Pros, with your hosts, Ashley Frederick and Steven Burch. If you're looking for an honest, authentic, and raw perspective, you found it. All right, thank you guys for tuning into today's podcast. I am super stoked to have our guest, Ryan Hennington here today. Um, I've known Ryan all his life. Um, he's actually my cousin, and so I thought that it would be great to bring him on. He has a fantastic story, doing some fantastic things with the NIL, and I don't want to kill any of your buzz and take over your introduction, Ryan. So I'm going to let you introduce yourself. Tell us who you are, what is it that you do, and give us a little bit of a background. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Steven, Ashley, Brandon, thank you for having me. This is, you know, I'm super excited to visit about NIL today and some other things. So, yeah, my name's Ryan. Like Steven said, I went to school at Kansas State University, and I was a part of the football program. And, you know, when my career finished up, I started what's known as an NIL Collective. It's for college athletics. It's evolved a lot, but essentially a fundraising arm that helps partner student athletes with local businesses, and it's become kind of the forefront of college athletics. So worked hand in hand with the coaching staff and the athletic department the last couple years to stand up a competitive program to help us compete with the new rules. So there's a whole lot to unpack there. But I've worked with former student athletes to help current student athletes here at K State. That's awesome. So what is the main driving factor that got you going with NIL in the whole concept? Yeah, I think just passion. Right. I love K State. I was in my senior season in 2021, it was December, and I sat down with Coach Kleiman. Had a really good relationship with him. I mean, to the point that he's like a player's coach. Right. So, I mean, he's the type of coach where he brings you over, you swim in his pool, hang out with his wife and kids, and we have a very honest and open relationship. And then. And in December, we're going to play LSU in the Texas bowl. And I sat down with him and, you know, I had another year of eligibility because I played through Covid and everybody got an additional year. And the conversation was like, are you going to exercise that extra year? And I said, no. You know, I think. I think it's time, you know, to hang it up. I was realistic. I never wanted to be an NFL player, nor was I probably capable, but I was proud of what my college career looked like. And I said, coach, you know, I've loved everything about this program. However, there's a new rule that changed back in July. He's like, yeah, Nil. I was like, yeah, NIL, Coach, we don't have any NIL here. And backtrack. I live with Skyler Thompson, who's now the quarterback for Miami Dolphins. Cody Fletcher, who is a really, really good linebacker. Ross Elder, who's a safety. And I remember when Nil first became legal, all four of us held together like, yeah, we're going to make a bunch of money. And then none of us made money except Skyler. And which rightfully so, I mean, but it got to the point where we heard buzz at other schools and other players were making money. And, you know, we looked at climate and said, hey, if you want to be competitive here, this is going to be pretty important. You know, recruits used to ask about the locker room, the facilities, just the coaching staff, but now it's, what kind of monetization opportunities are there. So I told him that and he said, well, we're not going to have an ill at Case State. We live in Manhattan. I said, well, that's interesting, Coach, let me, let me put some pen to paper and see if we can do something about that. He said, absolutely. So from there I called around some of players, some former players that I played with, Jesse Ertz, who is a former quarterback in sales in Kansas City. Ross Elder, safety that I live with, and a couple other buddies. And we essentially came together and started this collective. And the first initiative we had was we came back in January and we said, coach, we've got a group. You know, we don't know what we're doing, but we got a group. And he's like, great. We could really use some help with walk ons. And I was a form, I was a former walk on that eventually earned a scholarship. And when you can have a walk on that basically if you can help support them, it kind of opens up another scholarship spot because if you can pay for somebody's school without a scholarship, you can take care of them and still keep your scholarship limits open. So he said, let's help some walk ons. So we came up with three or four guys that we wanted to help out and we, we started fundraising and we jumped off to an early start, raised a couple hundred thousand dollars and we were on Top of the world. And we were super excited. And we were able to put three student athletes on basically enough compensation to cover their tuition and things of that nature. So that's how this whole thing started. And it's just been a whirlwind since. So, I mean, you kind of laugh at a couple hundred thousand dollars, like, that's not a. That's not a big deal. Like, that's huge. I mean, starting out from ground zero, absolutely nothing. Not having a program whatsoever and then being able to get that many athletes through, I mean, that quickly, I think is something absolutely remarkable, that you should be extremely proud of yourself. So tell us where. Where is the. The NIL at now? I know there's some changes that just occurred. Like, where are you at financially? What is all this looking like for you? Because it's grown, I mean, from outsider looking, and it's grown tremendously. Yeah. Yeah. So a couple hundred thousand was a lot of the time we celebrated. I mean, we. We'd never seen so many zeros on a check at one time. You know, mind you, I was four months out of my MBA degree, and I at the time was just struggling to pay rent, and we were just excited to get some money in. So from there, we went on and we were fundraising, and we realized that we probably weren't as good as we thought we were. We were just a little bit lucky to start, and we ran into some serious challenges. And it's interesting because different universities and institutions took different approaches on how much of a emphasis they were going to put on their NIL program. And we K State as a whole, you know, and for whatever reasons, many factors probably didn't pour enough resources into it. So we. We got off to an early lead, then we fell behind. Then fast forward to December of 2023. Last December, Coach Kleiman had about 14, 15 football players at the portal, which is unheard of. The transfer portal. This is the new thing where it's free agency. You can leave at any time. A lot of holes to fix in that, but that's a conversation for another day. But it, you know, we lost our quarterback, we lost our safety. All these people are leaving. We call coach climbing. Like, coach, let's just sit down. Like. And we did, and we said, coach, like, if we're going to make this successful, we need to create an environment where everybody is aligned and their synergy. In the athletic department, the fundraising arm, the NIL program, the coaches were all in lockstep. So we took that to Gene Taylor and the athletic department And Gene's been phenomenal. We sat down and we said, gene, we have to formalize this partnership in order to take this to the next level. So he. He agreed, and he selected us as the official NIL provider, which established a level of exclusivity. And this was back in January. From there, we set a goal of raising, you know, $12 million annually for NIL. And, you know, we're doing really good. It's June, so that. That would have worked on the calendar period. So it's June now, and we're right on track with that. And we. We determined that that number in the new Big 12 at Kansas State will help us be competitive and, you know, put us not only the top of the Big 12, but compete nationally. So we're right in the middle of it. You talk about continued change. About two weeks ago, a settlement kind of finalized, or at least the. The terms of the settlement are still being worked through, but the intention for the Senate settlement finalized, and the NCAA is now going to start revenue sharing, which. The reason our NIL collective existed was because technically K State, if K State's this entity, they could not pay the student athletes. They had to go through a third party. Insert our group, Wildcat Nil. Well, now there's a new rule that allows the university to facilitate those payments. The challenge is we have several hundred student athletes on contract now. We have money in the bank account. We have a program where we're basically roster management, and we're helping with recruiting, retention, and all these needs. So right now we're working on folding under the university's umbrella and couldn't tell you where we will end up in three months. We have some good ideas on the direction we could go, but that's been getting all of our attention right now. I mean, just a whirlwind of change and just the traction that you guys have had. What do you think? You know, obviously had a good group of people to get this thing started, but what does it take to. To be in your shoes in order to get something like this truly rolling? Yeah, that's a great question. I think when I think of, like, success, you know, I think you have to look at the marginal gains. You know, there's so many different factors. I don't. I don't think it's fair to. To say that this one thing was the reason we're successful. I think there are lots of prerequisites. One, our team is phenomenal. I surrounded myself with people who are more talented than me. I realized where my shortcomings My weaknesses are. We brought in Curry Sexton, who is an attorney, intelligent, intelligent, you know, when it comes to contracts and negotiation and litigation. Pearson McAtee, who's a former basketball player, he's a fiduciary, so he understands the financial responsibility. And, you know, we developed, developed a financial literacy program for our student athletes because now that you're employed, there's something called the irs and they want their cut, too. So a lot, a lot of education goes on around that. And then you can talk about the investment modalities and how you can turn 20,000 or $25,000 into a seven figure brokerage account after, you know, compound interest in 40 years and then just continuing to find people where I have holes. So I think I've tried to do a good job of realizing my shortcomings and, and finding other people who can help there, you know. Another thing, Steven, I, I'd say is failure. Like, failure has been the number one. Like, not consistent, but constant. And at first, you know, I didn't understand, like, every time we hit a failure or a point of like, you know, despair, I was like, well, this is it. You know, we have, we're out of money or we're not getting any traction, or we messed up a big donor meeting or, you know, etc. But what people don't realize about success is that that's necessary. And we, we all have this value of like, okay, we want to be successful and we have this belief that, well, we can't fail in order to be successful. Well, that value and that belief contradict, first off. And you have to understand that that belief might need to be looked at because it could be wrong. And I mean, it's the tale as old as time. But Thomas Edison, the light bulb, like, he did it a thousand times. Think about today. If somebody did something 999 times in a row before they succeeded. Like your friends, your family, your co workers, the people you're trying to impress upon, they will all look at you like, are you okay? Are you doing something wrong? Right. And I went through a whirlwind of different emotions of, you know, peer group or different people saying, why are you doing that? What are you doing it for? There's no point. There's no purpose. But we had a vision and we just stuck to it. So those are a couple of things. Yeah, I'm reading this book right now. It's called Winning. Right. And actually legit. This morning it was, I was reading and it was going through about how you have failure and Then you have the, the option to have disbelief in yourself, right? Like the doubt, you, you need to have the failure and continue to fail and continue to grow, because without growing or without failure, you're not going to have winning, right? But if you have the doubt and you have the self doubts, that's when you truly fail, right? And you're never able to bounce back because you're now in this limiting belief. But it's, you're absolutely correct. You have to make sure that you're, you're tipping the scale in the correct way. But sometimes the people that you're around, they, they do think you're crazy. And it's your passion that drives that, that, that vision that you have that I think truly continues that on. And it's okay to have people think that you're crazy, but you can't think that you're crazy and having those limits and beliefs. Right? That's, that's interesting. I mean, I, I battle with that too, because, you know, my peer group will be like, well, why are you working so hard? Why. Why are you doing that? And I've got to the point where I don't have to answer why. You know, it's just because I want to. I. Nature, nurture, set of circumstances. There's so many reasons as to why I'm doing what I'm doing or why I work so hard. And let me preface, like, I, I don't believe that I am endowed with some innate talent or anything like that. I think that I've been very fortunate to have, you know, an upbringing and parents that have instilled hard work, discipline, and not giving up. And like, that's, that's been a good recipe. So it's been interesting to see people like, well, why are you doing that? I can't answer why I want to. And sometimes that's enough and it's okay. Like if people watching this podcast, you know, you all that are taking on these new business ventures and obviously successful in the business realm, like, you want to be outstanding. Like, think about that work. You have to stand out and you just have to do different things than other people are willing to do. You have to expose yourself to different risks and different failures. And yeah, I think I'm fortunate. When I played football at Kansas State, when you made a mistake, you made it in front of 50,000 people broadcasted nationally. And then your Twitter mentions were filled with all this hate and, you know, different stuff and like, well, reality is, did it look bad on tv? Then I missed a tackle. Sure. Should I have made a tackle, sure. But they could know nothing about the schematics, the reality, the setup. Maybe it wasn't my guy to cover. You know, there's just so many different things that people don't understand. And as long as you stay connected to that vision I think you have, you give yourself a better chance of succeeding in the end. I totally agree. Actually, I don't want to, you know, take up all the time here. Just mean like I see your hand over there writing questions. What do you have here? First of all, I just want to say I definitely believe in walking walk ons. So being from the Badger State, J.J. watt was a walk on. And J.J. watt obviously is outstanding. You know, retired now, but he's true to my heart too, just because he gives back so much to the communities. And I think that I was reading some of your biography, biography type of things, but it sounds like you're pretty involved in your communities as well. So if you want to maybe just tell us a little bit about what you do and why that's important. Important to you as well. Yeah, well, you know, I think it first started the, the, the charitable work first started the same December. A lot happened December 2021. Evidently. I, I went to climb in a couple weeks before this Nil pitch and I said, coach, I think I want to do a fundraiser where we raise some money and we use the K State brand to help kids in the community. And my goal was to raise $1,000 and take 10 kids out shopping with a hundred dollar budget and we would have 10 football players and each person would buddy up with a, you know, a kid who needs the help. So we were going to call the local non profits and see if they can come up with a list of kiddos. And we put this gofundme out and next thing you know we wake up and there's $17,000 in this GoFundMe. And we're like, holy smokes. And there's just so much generous support. And we were able to serve like 70 different kids and help, I think 33, 34 different families. And from that moment I was like, it feels really good to make a difference. Like that's why we do what we do, right? To help other people. So it's just been a continuation of that. We've our organization, Walk Nil. We have a foundation, a 501c3 charitable piece and we partner with, you know, 10, 15 local charitable organizations in Manhattan. Food drives. We actually did one this past weekend. We did blood drives, you know, help different nonprofits get school supplies, you know, you name it. We're just trying to help make a difference because I, I think once you start serving other people, that's the, the art of fulfillment, like science is a success. Like, I can, you can do a two year recipe on how to get a six pack. Like, if you follow the strict diet, you work out this many days, like, and you just stick to it. It might suck, but there's a good likelihood that you can achieve your results, like baking a cake. But fulfillment, fulfillment is more of an art. And I've found a lot of fulfillment in being able to help others. So that's, that's kind of where the charitable piece came from. Awesome. Yeah, I'm like, it's a giver's gain, right? So I feel that not only in charitable, but also what you're doing for the, the team to be able to help other, you know, people. Come on. I think it's, it's just a testament, but when Steven mentioned his book, when did you say winning? Yeah. So he also has read or told me about Relentless. And I think of a lot of what you're talking about, Ryan, is there is, you know, something inside of all of us that there's not necessarily always an easy way to describe why, why we are the way that we are. But, you know, it is this relentless. It's always wanting to try new things, always wanting to be better, which I think, you know, you've been doing a great job. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, you mentioned you did it right out of college, so I know when I started jobs out of college, it was kind of, you're too young for this, those types of things. So have you seen that come across your plate? Oh, yeah. I've put in thousands of job applications. I've got probably 999 nos, maybe one or two yeses. So. Absolutely. Like, people want real, real world experience. Employers want people who can come in and make an immediate impact. And I didn't have that. So I had to kind of create my own, which has been a double edged sword. It's exposed me to a lot of learning opportunities and growth and. But yeah, I mean, when I first got done, I was like, finance private equity. I put my name in the hat for every private equity job I could find. I got as many no's as you could count. And I was like, okay, all right. And it's, it's interesting now because I'm, you know, in a, in a full circle moment. I'm managing A pretty good sized fund here. And you know, we're doing a lot of financial forecasting and budgeting and I don't know, it's still, I would still be open to working a private equity job for a little bit of time. So if there is anybody in a private, that has a firm, I'd just like to see what the inside looks like. But yeah, I definitely ran into that objection a bunch. So I, I distinctly remember, and I'm not going to say the number, but I distinctly. Ryan, you and I having a conversation and you, you told me that right out of college that you were planning on, you wanted to go somewhere and you wanted to, to make money, right? Like that's your main driving factor. You just got out of college, you want to learn, you want to grow. And you told me this number and I said, oh no, you're, you're way more capable of doing way more. Like you're already limiting yourself. And that was even still right out of college. Right. So you, you went on and you got a job that made damn good money. And that, that number was way above the, the number that you told me at the time. But what I think is really interesting with you is, yes, you, you knock that out of the park. I think everything that you do, you knock it out of the park. But you do other things other than just the Wildcat Nil currently. Correct. Yeah. I probably have too many irons in the fire. Yeah. So more context on what you're saying. I'm happy to share. I think coming out of college, like the, the first milestone is six figures, right? Everybody's like, oh, I want to make a hundred thousand dollars. That's all. That's a lot of dollars in one year. And I was trying for different jobs and I knew that there was good opportunity in sales and I happened to land a medical sales job with a tremendous company. I was super excited about it and the company was outstanding. And I stepped back from that this spring because I was running that company, or, excuse me, I was a part of NIL, but it just wasn't as active as I wanted it to be. I wanted this to be a full time job and it was more of like a side project and I was doing medical sales full time. So I stepped back from that. And then I've also, you know, in the, in the time, I've started a flood restoration company too, in Kansas City. So that's been, it's been exciting. And the reason I started that was because my father's in the industry and I I know it just enough to feel comfortable to start it. So I've, I've been fortunate to have opportunities cross my desk and I've just been relentless about trying to pursue them. And yeah, then, then you talk about these milestones like what's next? I think, you know, the good book says without a vision the people will perish. Right. And I think the next milestone, right, I, I have no fear in saying it is you people just want to be. At least I would like to be in the seven figure a year range. And you know, sometimes that's tough to say because 99 of people will look at you like, well, there's no way. Well, yeah, the people also said that about the six figure range. People said about that about NIL. People said that about a medical sales job that required five years of experience. So there is a way and somebody does it, somebody has to do it. And challenge for me is always knowing what the vehicle, the modality is going to be. But again, I think if the, if the why is strong enough, the how, we'll figure itself out. And you, you led me perfectly into the segue that I was trying to go anyway. Like money. Yes, I think probably was a driving factor for you and I think it's for a lot of people. That's the thing that we, we try to look at first. You know, I, for me personally, when, when I went and got a corporate job in Kansas City, I was making that, that six figures and I was like hell yeah, I got it. But I was not fulfilled. I did not have everything that I was like I thought that I wanted. And, and then in reality what I did is I quit that job essentially with no notice, just quit and went to selling real estate full time, which is zero dollar, you know, unless you actually sell something. But my, my passion was there, my, my determination was there. And then now I'm, you know, surpassed where I was when I was in Kansas City. But I, I think that with, with seeing you from the outside because you have that determination and because you have the, it's no longer a drive of money is the number one thing. The why within you is what the driving factor is. I truly believe that the, the world is your, your oyster. Right? Like you can do whatever it is that you want to be able to do. You know, you're, you would drop these names that you, you have these relationships with and it's absolutely nothing. Right? You, the education that you have and that you've occurred doing all of this, none of this education in my opinion and Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't feel that any of these education, these real life types of things that you are learning and implementing and doing could be taught in a classroom setting. There can be just, I think maybe the baseline or a foundation or just scratching it. But typically the people that are teaching these types of things, they never actually have fully done boots on the ground. Understanding of what it takes in order to take it from zero to a multi million dollar company and starting, you know, being an entrepreneur and doing all of this and doing, playing, you know, at a D1 school. Like all of the things that you have on your resume, yes, each one of them are a great success. But now compounded together, there's nobody that would have a better resume out there in my opinion because their determination is not the same as yours, their perspective is not the same as yours. You are able to do absolutely anything and look at all the people, the lives that you are changing every single day. And I always like, you know, when, when we talk about this, Ashley, I think you and I talked about it before. It's not just the person that one athlete that you helped or those four athletes that you helped at the very beginning. What about their family, right? What about the people that are surrounding them, that you now helped them? What about the mom and dad that couldn't financially afford it? And then what about the grandparents now that they're able to see somebody. Maybe some one of those are the people that first time they went to a university. Right. You know, within their family the compound effect and the, the trickle effect out of the impact and the lives that you are touching every single day with the NIL, with the different, the kiddos and the non profits that you're working with even on the restoration entrepreneurial world, it is hands down just, I mean it gives me chills to hear all of these things and everything that you've done. So I think you, it's hard sometimes to slow down and see and celebrate what, what all you have really accomplished because you are so determined and driven. I have that same issue as well. Right. But don't discredit what you have done, where you've been, your, your troubles, your, your pain points, your failures. I truly don't believe that there's anything out there that is a failure that you can't get through anyway. You're going to get, you're going to make it to the other side no matter what. Right? But to, to wrap up my little, my little spiel here is that the, it's amazing to see how far that you have come. And I think you've said it multiple times already. I know, in our discussions. But the family, I mean, your mom and dad, they're entrepreneurs. And do you feel that this is like embedded within, within you, the entrepreneurship world and you have all these other things that have compounded. Yes. And so, meaning, like the hap. You've had to go to college, you had to do all these things. Things. And then you have your entrepreneurship spirit and you really are the merged person, taking both of those together and taking the, the drive forward. I don't know if I made my question clear with that, but do you think it's embedded within you? Yeah, I, I understand the question. First off, I appreciate all the kind words from both of you guys, are very supportive and uplifting. So thank you. As far as you know why I am the way that I am, and I think it boils down to values and beliefs. And obviously these things are learned through upbringing and some are passed on from mother to son and father to son. My parents definitely elevated their lives and our lives through business. But it's like people think, oh, okay, you know, I want to start a business. I want to make a side hustle. So I hate the term side hustle. I really do. Because like, they're like, there's no side hustle. Like, if you want a side hustle, just pick up another shift. If you really want to change your life, you're gonna have to work harder. You're gonna have to do, you know, you're gonna have to do more. And like the, the notion that, you know, a six figure salary job in the corporate world is bad. Like, that's not what I'm saying. That's not what I don't think anyone here is saying for most people. I mean, I'm sure that's great. That just didn't fill our. My bucket. Probably not your buckets either. And that's, that's completely okay to say. So. I did see my parents endure a ton of hardships and I did see them drast, like dramatically elevate our lives. And I, I remember being in, I think the, I think it was probably a third or fourth grade. We did a lemonade stand in front of my house and I mean we were past. It was probably 110 degrees outside and we were passing out like a half full cup of lemonade and selling them for like three buc bucks at the time, which is way over inflated. And we made like 80 something dollars. And I remember I had called my Friends to come help, and then we'd like. I was like, all right, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna go door to door, we're gonna start selling them. Like, we got to take this product, we gotta get it in front of people. And I remember it was 80 something dollars, and we split the pot how we deemed accordingly, and I think it was probably, you know, divided four or five ways pretty fairly. And I just felt good because, like, it's not what I did, it's what we did. We came together to do something bigger than us. And my parents have been able to impact other people in a positive way. And some of these business opportunities, like, really none of them have been planned out. Like, honestly, like, you look back at it, it just kind of falls into your lap or like the opportunity is there and you just have to seize it. And yeah, that's, it's something that I've fallen in love with. You know, I, I want to continue to learn more and develop and not be burdened by some of the things that maybe I'm burdened with now where other business people face. And there's always problems like more money, more problems. The bigger, the bigger the impact you want to make, the bigger the problems you have to solve. Sure. So I'm not scared of the problems, but just wanted to be. Continue to be better at that. So, yeah, culmination, things. That's a little bit of a rant. It's hard to pinpoint, but I'm definitely very fortunate to have seen my parents endure what they've gone through. Absolutely. Do you, do you consider yourself a leader? Absolutely. Yeah. I. One of my favorite analogies is, I think as leaders, and it's kind of corny, but if you grab a, you know, a Kleenex and lay it out on your, on your desk and it's all flat and you have your four corners of people on the outside of your Kleenex. You know, you have your family, you have your friends, you have your sphere. Right. Like in all these different people that are around you. And as a leader, you know, you, you pull up in the middle and as you pull up, at first it seems that everybody else is dangling down and you're leaving them. But in reality, because you're, you're going out ahead and you're, you're driving further, you're actually pulling everybody else up. And I think that, yes, money is why we're in business, but at least for me, being able to pull other people up with me and I should put A side note, the people that actually want to be pulled up and people that are willing to do the work. I'm not here pulling up people that are trying to be assholes and trying to just get, you know, freeloading right on the. The coattail. Like, I'm talking about actually truly surrounding yourself around people that want to move up with you. I think sometimes it is lonely, lonely at the top. And as a, as a leader, I think everybody or people perceive as leaders, like, you have it all, it's super easy. You have all these people that are truly around you. But I don't think what's really discussed a whole lot is that as a leader, sometimes it's very lonely. It's very dark, right? Like, and it's very hard to not allow yourself to go back to some of these people that, you know, only want to stay at status quo. The ones that are partying all the time, the ones that have no ambition, the ones that are not looking to. To improve themselves, you know, on a personal level or a professional level. So as a leader, can you talk about the struggle? And I don't know if your age has anything to do with it. I know my age still has a lot to do with it, too. Right. But do you have a struggle of that moving forward and then sometimes feeling like you maybe need to pull yourself back and go back to status quo? You know, there are so many struggles, and there's. There's beauty in the struggle, I guess. So, like, I mean, you talk about what struggles have I endured, like, going there, like, trying to get to the place that you want to go, like, that's. That's a lonely venture, you know, I remember, like, literally sleeping on, you know, my buddy's couch in Kansas City for two months. And I remember, I remember the last month that I zeroed out all my bank accounts. I'm calling around, trying to get money to make next month's rent, putting myself in tough situations. That's a lonely feeling. Then when you get to an area like a neck, the next level, right? And you kind of achieve this status of leadership, whether it's authority in your business and you're just the boss or whether that you are actually influencing people, there's more responsibility and more weight, and people look at you to solve the problems. So that's a very lonely feeling, too. And then you look around to people who have the same ambitions as you, and the higher you go, the more unreasonable it seems, the less people want to strive for that and expose themselves to risk. That's A lonely feeling too. So, yeah, it's lonely everywhere. But I think, you know, Steven and Ashley, what you guys do, you guys are successful people. Like the, the worst mistake that somebody can make is thinking that they're going through it alone. Like no matter what I go through, like talking family tragedy, adversity at home, adversity in a business, somebody's already done it. Somebody's going through it right now. So the best thing I can do is either find people who are going through it or find somebody who's done what I want to do and gone through it and just consult with them. And being able to be resourceful is probably what I would determine, at least right now is one of the more valuable assets to get through the loneliness of leadership. Would you agree with that? So I personally, yes, 100% agree with it. And where I'm going to go with this, Ryan, is you sharing your story. Think about all the people that are out there currently that maybe are going through this loneliness and regardless of whatever it may be, and they see and hear your story of what could be capable and they see that, you know, you're the person that, the resource that they're looking for. So my point being and question is that how do you get out there to share your story more to help other people? Because obviously impacting people's lives is super important to you. That fills your cup up, right? But then how do you actually turn that around and put that out into the world to help others follow the, the same type of line? Maybe not line of work, but passion and drive,. Helping others that are going through the same thing? How do, how do I put my story out there? Let's start with that one. I probably don't do a good job with that. And that's me self reflecting right now. I probably don't do a great job of sharing what I'm going through just because sometimes the problems are, and challenges that I'm working on. It's almost like this, this, this insecurity that I have, like, ah, you know, when I get to this point then I can talk about it or when I'm, when I make, you know, when the company makes this amount of money or when we get this level of status, then I can share. But there's always like, and you look back at all the things, all the milestones we set out that we've achieved or missed and you know, at the end of the day it's just fear basically holding me back from telling my story. And I'm kind of realizing that as I'm saying this now, the message for the people who are going through it, I would say, make sure you have the right plan. I mean, I've had the wrong plan, and that's very humbling. So, I mean, if you don't have the diligence to sit down, look at the numbers, do projections, and do your homework, you're. You're gonna get humbled either by your lack of preparation or just by the circumstances. But if you do believe in it and you do have a vision, like, you have to be able to block out outside noise, and you have to consult with people who are doing it. Like, if you have somebody who's already doing it. Like, if I wanted to start a real estate company, and I came to you, Steven, and you said, ryan, you need to do these 20 things for the next 20 days. There's so many recipes and blueprints out there. You just have to follow them. And, like. And if I was scared to do it, I was like, yeah, well, you know, these 10 sound good, but these 10, you know, I really don't want to do social media. I really don't want to hire this person. I don't want to make this decision. Like, you know, it's just a big step. I'm not sure if I want to do it. Do it because they already, like, learn from the people who have already done it, and that's my biggest piece of advice. So, like, go find somebody who's done what you want to do. Become their best friend. Have a lot of humility, own up to your mistakes, and just keep going when you. When you encounter those mistakes. That's awesome. Yeah. There's a reason for my question or, you know, saying that. Right. Like, you and I shared a lot about. I struggle with, you know, getting on social and talking about myself, and because I feel that trying to, you know, brag, and that's not the K. But we. We sometimes have these stories that we tell ourselves, and I think you and I are very similar in that. That we have a bigger. There's a bigger picture out there that we can help more people, but we're holding ourselves back. And what if by us holding ourselves back, we did not help someone else? Right. Because we held ourselves back, somebody else struggled that we could have helped. And I think when I. When I turn that perspective and I'm even talking about myself. Right. Right now. Right. When I turn it into that perspective, it makes me, like. I don't want to say angry at myself, but almost selfish. And the fact that why Not, I have no problem talking about it, but me actually sitting here and typing out or making a video by myself. Like, I, I need to change that perspective of how I can help other people because that's why I'm on this mission. That's my purpose in life, is to help other people. So. But why am I holding myself back? And yeah, I think that's something that you and I definitely both need to, to work on because we have a lot more people to impact. So in that moment when you are hesitant to do something, what feelings are you experiencing? Like, I think it's more, it's probably not even rejection from other people. I'm not worried about the rejection. It's more so the. Does it come off that I'm being conceited? Does it come off that I'm trying to brag about what is truly going on? I even have, like, am I even. Am I qualified to give that advice, right? Like, am I do people? Is the number that's attached to that? Is that okay? Like, I, I question a lot of, like, almost everything from what are people from the outside going to say to. If I don't fulfill what my promises are to these people, what is going to happen? You know, and even to myself of do I really want to? Maybe it's putting myself out in the spotlight. Do I want to do that? Because I never said I want to be somebody in the spotlight. But it's not that I'm trying to say here. Look at me. I always say, like, I don't want to be that tick tock person, right? That person that's dancing on tick tock making a fool of themselves. Like, yeah, I'll sit there and scroll and watch you, but I don't want to be that person. So how do I find it to where it doesn't feel. I don't have that ick. That, the ickiness about it. I don't, I don't have that answer. But I, I go through a whole emotional roller coaster and even though I say what other people think about me, say about me doesn't. Doesn't affect me, it doesn't affect me as much. I still take those things in consideration, but I don't allow it to change the, the, the direction that I'm going in. So, yeah, I mean, all over the place with that. No, that's great content. There's so many different ways you can take that. I think I was listening to an Alex Formosi podcast this week, and he was talking about the fear of others or rejection or you can. You can label the emotion of the feeling whatever you want. And his philosophy, agree with it or not, was that everything has to tie back to one core. Fear. And if you have a fear of rejection, well, what happens if you get rejected? Well, if you do something wrong, people won't like you. If they don't like you, you're going to be alone. And if you're going to be alone, you're going to live life alone and you're going to die alone. And it all. It all ties back to dying alone. And if you realize that, like, well, you know, John or Sally's judgment really doesn't matter because we're all, you know, our life on Earth is temporary, and after, you know, several generations, we're going to be forgotten about. You might as well just strive to do what you think you're capable of trying to do. So it's funny that you say that. I'm struggling with the same things. You know, I have these. These areas that I, you know, I'm hesitant to be vulnerable, hesitant to tell my story. I don't want to come off conceited. Like, what if I start talking about my story and my story is, like, not even good enough to share? I have all the same feelings. But I appreciate you sharing that because I definitely am battling the same thing. Go ahead, Ashley. I was just gonna say, you know, it is. It is interesting, Ryan. I think you make a good point about the fear part of it. And I read a book, Fear is My Homeboy, which really put it into perspective for me that that is what was in my way of. And I think you guys can both relate. You know, small town, or like you said, you know, you miss a tackle and it gets put all over, like, social media, right? And there's a point where, you know, that bothers you because we're human, right? And somebody said something that, you know, wasn't nice or wasn't meant the way that it should have been taken. But I think at the end of the day, we're all in the same boat of that we want to impact someone at the end of the day. You know, Steven and I have always said, with leading Lane, at the end of the day, if we make one person's life better, which I guarantee you, we've done more than that. We've done our job. And I. If you look back at my Facebook, like, there was probably like a year of no posts. I mean, like, nothing. People probably wouldn't have guessed that I was selling real estate, even though I selling 100 houses a year. Nobody would know that. And it was this humble thing of people are going to consider it bragging. But in the same sense, I realized that some people might not even know that I'm in real estate because I don't talk about it anymore. And we don't want that to happen. So I've gotten better at it. But I think that when I'm struggling, before I make a post or before I tell someone, I just have to remember, like, it's the one person that I'm trying to lift up that day. It's not the 20 people that'll be like, oh, must be nice, or, you know what? Not like, those aren't my people. Those people can comment, those people can say what they want, but it's the people that send me a private message that say thank you. And I don't need them to put thank you on my, you know, post or anything like that. The fact that they sent me a text message. Your post really meant a lot to me this morning. Nobody else needs to know that, but at the end of the day, like, that's why I keep going and I. You're young. We. We've been there. And you're right, you know, Steven mentioned it about the generation, and I think that your generation or your age gets a lot of flack because we have those, you know, that maybe don't show up and. And don't put the hard work in, but at the end of the day, like, we're all given the same 24 hours, and it's a matter of who we choose, you know, to spend that with and what we do. So I would just tell you that I've loved, you know, getting to know more about what you're doing, and I definitely think that you're inspirational. And I think the other point that I'll just leave with is it's also a matter of putting yourself in rooms that you wouldn't necessarily necessarily be in. You know, Steven and I met by pure coincidence, you know, we're at the same event, and it's just, you know, you know, you don't know someone until you actually introduce yourself. And you might realize that you're, you know, two of the same or. Which can be scary sometimes, you know, or that you have the same life goals. So I encourage you to definitely, you know, keep on putting yourself in those rooms. And I think people would just be drawn to your energy. Thank you again, that. Very kind words, and I'm. I'm grateful to receive them. So thank you and you know, I think here too, like, just listening to all of this is maybe, maybe this is unchartered waters. You know, there's, there's not a lot of people out there, at least that I know, Ryan, that have done NIL and done what you have done. Right? Like, let alone even starting a business and being entrepreneur. Right. And maybe some of the hesitation, more so for me was what I do is completely different than anybody else out there. So what I try to compare, quote, unquote myself to does not meet my expectations. Um, and, and let me give you an example. I, I really struggled for the longest freaking time of like, what do I call myself? You know, like, what is my title? Um, I don't like using the word coach because I feel like everybody and their mama right now is out there as a coach. I don't like the word as a consultant because people don't really understand what the consultant means. I don't want to be a high performance coach because I just don't want that coordination with other people. Right. So the term that I came up with is I'm a high impact business coach and consultant. And the reason why I put high impact is because I want to impact people's lives, Lives and let that, yes, I'm leading with business, but I think before you can even do anything and change anything in business, you first have to change yourself so that you can then lead and then the business then follows. But I think it's maybe for me going back to the question of like, what are the feelings? And what Ashley had said is I need to, I need to put it in a reality check for myself that I'm here to impact one person. I'm here to be that high impact in their life. I'm not a life coach. And so I think it's these labels and struggles of people in the past with these particular titles that I don't want to affiliate with and be like, because I don't agree with all of their practices. But with that being said, this is all new territory. What we're doing, it's our story, it's our methods. It's what drives other people and attracts other people to us. And so both you and I, and I'm. I'm gonna make the commitment here that I'm gonna do better at the, the posting and sharing and not holding back, because that's not what somebody that has a high impact in somebody's life does. So I'm not even leaving living up to what the, what I'm trying to say. That I'm doing. Let me ask you this, Steven. To whatever extent you're comfortable sharing what you. You talked about, you've kind of been almost turned off by some of the. The coaches, right? The personal coaches. What. What philosophies or practices specifically are you trying to avoid? So I just feel that there's some people that just go out there and maybe didn't really make it in real estate. Right. Or it doesn't have to be real estate in the industry. And so therefore, the fallback is, oh, I'm going to be a life coach. Well, I mean, I do think that there's a purpose for a life coach. I'm not knocking it, but that's not what I do. Right. I think that there's people that have not done what I have done and built a business like what I built, but yet they have this wonderful title and never have even sold real estate or haven't sold real estate in 30 years. Right. Things have changed. So I don't want to be perceived by the consumer, quote, unquote, that I'm just like them. And it's funny that I'm even saying this, is that, like, well, if I don't want to be perceived that way, then how do I get them not to perceive me that way? And the only way for them not to see me that way is for me to. For them to actually see me for who I am and what I do, and that's sharing my story. So there's the therapy session of the day. Right? No, I love it. I think you're right. You just have to be louder about the things that make you different. There's so. Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. So what. What challenges are you currently facing or what are you up against right now? Ooh, like a mind business. Like, that's a whole. Yeah, no more so business. I did go through this identity struggle, right. Of. So Ryan Garrison, my husband, took over the supervising broker of the company. So I'm still an owner of the company, but I don't have that title anymore. So that's where I was really seeking this title. The title really means nothing to me. At the end of the day, I just needed something, a label, I guess, which is also odd why I'm looking for that. I think it's this. I want things to happen quicker than what they are actually happening. And I think the struggle there is, you know, reflecting back, we. We have been growing this real estate business for over 10 years, and it had gained a lot of traction very quickly. And a Lot of, there's a lot of stuff going on. Right. There's a lot of noise going on, good things, positive things, momentum. And so I was used to the momentum and when you start from something else from complete scratch and I think going from all that momentum to maybe not as much momentum as you're, you're used to. I mean I only have one staff on leading lane stock. There are two staff on leading lane side versus the seven that I had over on the real estate company. So of course it's going to go slower. So I think the struggle that I'm having with is I need to slow myself down because I did not start the real estate company at that pace, but I had to start myself or slow myself down because I do think that in building a business, the attention to detail, it's all in the detail. It's all on making sure that you're not dropping the ball in certain areas, making sure the client journey, everything is actually there. And you cannot be able to, you cannot scale to the magnitude that I want to be able to scale to with going that quick. So actually going slower is going to get me there faster because it's all in the detail. Yeah. Are you comfortable sharing where you want to be? And I think that's the hard thing. I was asked the question a while back ago with our new coach. She asked what number that I want. Like I have a number that I want to get to, right. But like after that the world, I mean there's, I want it all right, what do I want this to be? I now look at it like how many other people can I bring with me in this journey? At first it was all about me in coaching consulting. Well now I've been able to see that I can, we can have a whole different value service ladder and I can bring in multiple different people and their strengths and lean into their strengths. And now instead of it just being a one lane type of business, now we have multiple lanes and multiple people growing it. And now we'll be able to go and scale that out so that we can touch more people's lives the end of the day and then elevate the, the industry. And even with that, it started out all being all about real estate, but this is across the board in multiple different industries and even on a, a personal development side of things too. So I think it's seeing that there's so much capability, so much opportunity that is truly here. It's almost, I'm not going to say frightening. I don't want to get distracted with the all of the what ifs. And I could, you know, like, yeah, I can and. And miss the opportunities of what is directly in front of me. And building a solid foundation. Does that make sense on this? Like, because I don't want the new shiny thing. I used to be that way. Right. Like, oh, let me jump over here, Let me jump over here. Let's jump over here now. Like, it never actually accomplish anything with it. I want to be able to master it and then go on to the next lane. If you will master that, go on to the next lane. And I think that when building a business and building that foundation in that manner is truly how you ultimately scale your business. And that may be a completely different direction than when you initially started that that business plan or that idea popped in your brain. Yeah, that makes complete sense. Well, we are top of the time here. Any last thoughts for any of you guys? I just, you know, admire what you guys are building. I think you guys are doing something really special and you're going to make a difference in a lot of people's lives. I think there is literally no limit to what that can look like. And I appreciate all the kind words, you know, deserving or not. They've been heartwarming for sure. Absolutely. Well, they're very well deserving. And it took me a very long time and business still gives me a hard time or like, it's hard time for me to say thank you. Like what you're saying. Thank you. So I. You. You're an upstanding guy and I'm. I'm blessed to. To know you obviously being then related to you. And I do think that there's a. A little bit of a. A common denominator, a big common denominator and what both your and my mission in life is to be. So I'm very fortunate and blessed to hopefully be a part of that. Yeah, likewise. Likewise. All right, well, thank you guys for tuning in today. Please go like and subscribe and share our podcast. We greatly appreciate it. Awesome. Thanks, guys. 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