HGTV, Small Town Growth, and Big Vision with Ben Argall

All right, welcome to the Leading Lane podcast. Today we have a special guest with us. I mean, he's pretty damn famous, so we're excited that you could take out a little bit of time and hang out with us. We have Ben Argel with us. Ben, how about you go ahead and introduce yourself and then Ashley has a tons of questions for you.

Ben Argall (05:05.358)
Well, sure. I'm Ben Argo. I'm broker owner of Next Home Superior Living in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. We were the first Next Home office in the UP. I've been in real estate for over 10 years. I'm known locally as the guy that was on HGTV. And I do enjoy a good home renovation project and I'm getting into more developed projects and bigger projects now.

Steven L Burch (05:32.679)
So Ashley, how did you meet Ben?

Ashley (05:38.645)
So I met Ben at a Broker Fest track in Kansas. He had met, I believe, Julie online and Julie had him come along. So got to know each other in Kansas, which was great, over three days. And then we randomly all ended up in Chicago three days later. So Stephen and I were there for another conference and got to meet up.

Steven L Burch (06:02.301)
all at the same time.

Ashley (06:07.243)
with Ben and we had a great time at doing pianos. I'll never forget when we were walking back and your friend fell like face first into the concrete. So anyway we were fast friends you know over a week. It's funny how you can become fast friends with someone but then ultimately Ben is actually only four hours from me so putting those pieces together we've been able to

Steven L Burch (06:18.205)
Thank

Ashley (06:35.32)
to meet up some other times and we're actually gonna see each other in about two weeks here too, so looking forward to that.

Steven L Burch (06:41.181)
That's awesome. And we happen to go up to Ben's grand opening, right? Ben and Stephanie and the amazing freaking building that you renovated. Absolutely freaking stunning. you know, they have chills because like your design work and I really want to talk about your HDTV. I'm sure you love talking about that experience. But I mean, your freaking design work and what you have your eye for how to put everything together is just freaking phenomenal.

think where did that come from? that just a natural born talent or where is this coming from?

Ben Argall (07:16.558)
Honestly, I was always creative growing up. I've always had a crayon in my hand and that just kind of turned into a paintbrush and I started painting at the age of 10. started making money at it actually at the age of 12. 13, I opened up an art gallery in downtown Ishpreme. I kind of spearheaded a lot of my entrepreneur skills and just art skills in general. I wanted to go into architecture actually in high school, but...

Steven L Burch (07:33.339)
I don't know that.

Ben Argall (07:44.416)
talking with other people, it was more math and less creative. So I kind of got away from that. And I kind of pursued the art more. And I had a manufacturing company and manufactured items made for my paintings. And I was 23 when I launched that. And then I was actually at an art show and a realtor approached me about being her assistant in real estate.

and got licensed at 25. So two years after I opened up the business and that started my career. And ironically, I have not painted since after I switched to real estate, I got away from painting because I turned a passion into a job. So I don't recommend doing that. However, I'm more creative now with spaces. So selling houses kind of pivoted my artistic eye into design and definitely love that almost more.

It's more expensive hobby to have though, I will say that in the painting.

Steven L Burch (08:41.213)
So how did it come about that you ended up on HGTV? Was that an application process or is that something that they were able to see that your talent was there? How did that go down?

Ashley (08:44.084)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Argall (08:57.646)
So it was a long process. I was actually approached by a casting director on Instagram years prior. And she always interviewed me and wanted to find a show for me. And pretty much she found me because I posted, like my first house I bought cheap and I couldn't even limit it when I bought it. And I pretty much got it and moved into it six months later and still worked on it. So I posted a lot of before and after pictures.

So the house I bought was pretty much 1980s. Everything was tan and beige and white and not my style at all, because I'm very colorful. And so she saw that renovation. And then I was working on my family house, the one that I live in now, and she saw more of my progress and design work. And so she wanted me to be on season two of the show, but that was back in 22 and the real estate market was just hot. I'm like, I can't leave right now. There's too much going on. And so in...

She approached me again in a bit of a fall of 22 to film in 23. And I'm like, sure, I'll finally do it. But I didn't realize at the time that it was gonna be the most horrible timing, mainly because I was on a cruise in January into February. I launched my next home office on February 5th while still on vacation. And then I left two weeks after that to go film for six weeks for the HTTV show.

So I put too much on my plate early on in 2023, plus renovating my current office space.

Steven L Burch (10:30.097)
mean, you don't know how to do anything small, Like you make sure that you go all in all the time.

Ben Argall (10:36.908)
Honestly, if you want something done, you ask a busy person to do it because it's going to get done.

Ashley (10:42.523)
I always say that, literally. It's always the busy people that will get it done.

Ben Argall (10:46.947)
Yep.

Steven L Burch (10:48.829)
So, on a scale from one star to five star.

How was the experience being on HGTV?

Ben Argall (10:58.976)
It's interesting because like I have different aspects of it. Looking at the show, what it was, it truly was a contest. However, I take what I do very seriously and I wanted to produce a quality product. So I think I lacked some design to win the contest, but I can say that what we produced on the show was a much higher product than the competition. So for that aspect, I wish.

I played the game more just to maybe have possibly won the $50,000 grand prize. Overall, I will say construction in the UP versus Alabama, completely different. I will say painting and humidity sucks. I will take a dry winter day to paint inside versus the humidity of Alabama on the shores. But it was even different with the building codes.

I had no idea about hurricane shutters and hurricane rated things. Not my forte. I know snow loads as far as roofs in UP, but nothing about hurricanes up here. Overall though, like it was cool to watch production and see what actually happens behind the scenes. Like I'm kind of ruined now, like watching other reality TV because I know exactly what's going on behind the scenes. Nothing of ours was really scripted or staged. It really was what you saw is what actually happened.

Steven L Burch (12:01.125)
Yeah.

Ben Argall (12:24.084)
And so I'm kind of grateful for that. That didn't make us actually acting though. It truly was what it was.

Ashley (12:30.999)
Do think you would ever do something like that again?

Ben Argall (12:33.94)
If I do, would negotiate my contract differently. Yeah. But overall, what do you, like I said, like, think good design takes time and rushing it. That was my heart thing. Cause like I look at this building that I'm in now, this from purchasing, right. The purchase agreement to me actually moving in was almost a two year endeavor. I think a design takes a long time and you.

Ashley (12:38.819)
Fair.

Steven L Burch (12:57.149)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Argall (13:01.262)
have lead times, like waiting for certain things to be manufactured or made. Like I have custom cabinets here that I had to wait over eight weeks for. So like even on a TV show, like we order cabinets on week one and they were installed week four. So like even now you have a quick turnaround time and that's not really possible with good design and custom made things.

Steven L Burch (13:23.003)
Love it, love it. Ashley, I won't take all the questions. I'll let you go.

Ben Argall (13:26.805)
Yeah.

Ashley (13:29.134)
Obviously that was a great experience for you being on HGTV. How do you think that that influenced anything that you do in real estate now?

Ben Argall (13:40.044)
Honestly, the best thing that came from the show was I think being more comfortable talking on camera and being mic'd up. Before this, before the show, I was definitely afraid. Like I would never talk on the news, not anything. And now I feel like I'm doing live TV like a lot more. And I will say a special thanks to Stephanie Jones because without her pushing me, I don't think I would be this comfortable. And she...

She still, she will force me to do things I don't want to do just to get the experience and become better at it.

Steven L Burch (14:12.061)
I know nothing about that.

Ben Argall (14:13.87)
Hahaha

Ashley (14:15.405)
Not at all. How do you use some of your design, like either in your listings or in some of your projects, like how do you try to incorporate that when you're helping other people?

Ben Argall (14:28.238)
I honestly, it's fun with clients because I can, I do, I can redesign a house rather quickly in my head during a showing. Um, like I did, I do have to preface that I'm not an engineer. I'm not a contractor, but I can definitely dream for other people and see what's possible. So I love like even furniture layout. Like I can visualize that right away. So I definitely help my clients with that when looking at houses. Cause it seems like even my first house was built in the fifties. It was tiny.

And it's hard to find furniture that actually fits some of these older houses. You just can't put a big sectional in every single house. So I think that's kind of one of the takeaways that I can tell my clients. And honestly for business, like I love the social media aspect. I like designing different, you know, social media posts. I just have an eye for that.

Ashley (15:16.18)
So one more design question. What is an element that you think is timeless and what's something you think is going out of style?

Ben Argall (15:24.654)
Honestly, I hate her.

Ashley (15:26.454)
And don't say luxury vinyl plank flooring.

Steven L Burch (15:28.838)
Hahaha

Ben Argall (15:29.186)
I already said that I hate luxury vinyl playing flooring, especially the gray tones. Being up here, truly, like I hate white cabinets. I think you need some color in your life. Up here, we have snow for six, seven months out of the year. So we see white outside. So bring some color on the inside. It's going to help your mood. But I think timeless, like pretty much in my house, I have something black almost in every single room. I also have some...

Asian pieces, it's vases, porcelain. I like mixing things up like that. And I'm not afraid of color. Like, color drenching is kind of my thing. Like, if you see my kitchen, it's forest green walls, country green walls, and I have all of the cabinets. It's bold, it's beautiful, it's who I am. So, don't be afraid of color, it's my big thing.

Steven L Burch (16:20.455)
I never thought that I would like green cabinets. And then I saw that on your Facebook, I think, right? And I was like, holy hell, that is, like, it's stunning. I love it. I mean, it just compliments everything in there and it looks so good. Yeah.

Ben Argall (16:28.547)
Yeah.

Ben Argall (16:36.398)
So speaking of the green cabinets, that was my meltdown on the TV show. Like we ordered these cabinets that I hated and I was gonna paint them. And the first color green was awful. And then it was humid, so the paint was not sticking to these cabinets. And that's why like episode one, I'm crying pretty much. Like I was the first one to cry, even though technically Kelsey cried before me, but it was a different episode. But I had to prove to myself that I could paint kitchen cabinets and I took on that project last year and this year.

the pantry so it was kind of to have my kind of revenge and know that I can actually do it.

Ashley (17:15.531)
was just gonna say I do love all things black as well. So we can at least agree on that. But one thing that you spend a lot of time in in your area is economic development, which you and I have talked about because it's a little bit of a struggle here. And I always wanna be like, why can't we do what you're doing in Michigan? So can you tell us a little bit just about maybe how you got involved in some of the projects that you're taking on in Michigan right now?

Ben Argall (17:43.406)
It all kind of started with actually the brokerage when I learned of what was possible. So my building here is in downtown Nagani and we have a very active DDA, downtown development authority. So that started at where I was, I got a $25,000 facade grant and I matched 25,000. So I think I spent over a hundred thousand on my facade. So it was easy to get the matching dollars. So the DDA gave me 25,000 for the facade.

The other thing is, Ngani is a redevelopment ready community. And that's through the MEDC, Michigan Economic Development Corporation. And that's kind of a mixture of public and private funds that support development to the state of Michigan. And I was the first person to get a grant for a quarter million dollars. was called Build My Communities. pretty much was quarter million dollars.

I mean, I was over budget on this building, but a quarter million dollars makes such a huge difference because there was a huge gap. the construction versus what the appraised price was of this building was definitely over 200,000. So the gap financing definitely helped. Moving forward with my next project, I'm looking at different funding sources. One is through the Michigan Land Bank. And so the state land bank actually paid for the building that was on my lot that I bought to be torn down because it was blighted.

So was an $80,000 grant. I got through them. And then I also got another grant through the MEDC for pre-development work, which included $30,000 for phase one architectural drawings. And now I'm going after a couple things. One is with MISTA, Michigan State Housing and Development Authority. For housing, have, I think it's up to $100,000 per unit for grant funding phase.

There's the gap to have more income, middle income housing, attainable housing. So that's going to be like a $1.2 million grant. Mainly because the cost of building is so high right now, there is a huge gap. So the building I want to build is over $3 million, but financially a bank can only support like 1.2 million. So where does the other 2 million come from? So that's where these programs come into play.

Steven L Burch (19:57.533)
Mm-hmm.

Steven L Burch (20:01.499)
Now, what is the population where you're from?

Ben Argall (20:07.382)
So my brokerage is in downtown Ngani. Their population is about 4,500. I live in Ishpeming and that population is 6,500. That's where I sit on city council.

Steven L Burch (20:19.847)
mean, to me, when we were up there, it was wild of what all you have to offer in such a small community. I mean, these types of grants and the different programs that are available to be able to help others for the economic side of things. mean, kudos to your community and being able to truly tap into that and help and provide resources and to grow. And kudos to you for...

pouring back into the community and giving back there as well.

Ben Argall (20:52.992)
It's truly a collaboration though. I will say that like even other developers locally, we learn from each other. We help each other out. We don't view each other as competition. Like I'm helping right now coach another developer about the Build My Communities grant and I helped them with that and they got 250,000 for their project. So I kind of consulted on that. And it's just, I don't view this as, you know, competition. truly is collaborative and it's helping the community that I live and serve in.

Steven L Burch (21:25.469)
Do you feel that you have any sort of the small town politics pushback?

Ben Argall (21:34.306)
I don't think I feel that so much. know that I, with being on city council at Ishpeming, I won't develop their time off of city council just to have full transparency. So most of my development that I'm working on now is in the city of Degani. I think that helps. also, know like, other state developers may have a harder time. I think I've proven myself to our community with the current building, brokerage building, because of the design and how well it came out.

So I think people are a lot more happy. You know, even me tearing down a building, I thought I was going to get a lot of slack for doing that and everybody was supportive because I knew it was blighted. So the community is already behind me, but it took me a good project and honestly being a lifelong resident helped too.

Steven L Burch (22:24.103)
How does that feel with what you have accomplished at such a young age?

Ben Argall (22:28.942)
I have to remind myself that I am young. I am only 36 because I'm very impatient. I want more things to be done. I've always had these crazy goals. And the thing is most of my goals scare me. So I think that kind of keeps me pushing forward too. But I guess I am humbled. I'm glad I get the respect that I do. I'm not just a kid anymore. Like I think I finally can show that I have skin in the game. I can do what I say I'm going to do.

So I think I'm more confident now than I was in my 20s.

Ashley (23:05.012)
It's funny that you say that I was listening to a book this morning that just talks about how greatness takes time and we forget about that. You know, I think it talked about that the Avatar movie took 15 years to make, but it's the best selling ever, you know, movie. And I think it was like Julia Child's first, like her book, I think it was took her 10 years to write and it's like the best selling book. So I think that we are all ones that like the immediate

Steven L Burch (23:32.092)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley (23:32.972)
effects. But really, I mean, the greatness does take a little bit of time. And I think that all of us, know, someone might be in their 40s, but have accomplished a lot in a short amount of time. And I think you're right, we sometimes just need to sit down. One of the suggestions was the one the book was just to list out like your top 15 accomplishments and put it somewhere. When you're having a bad day, you think you haven't counted too much, you look it out, you know, pull it out.

I mean, I have done a fair amount and I kind of get some work around it.

Ben Argall (24:04.61)
And I think part of that is just thinking about on social media, we see the end result. We don't know what the years of planning it took to get there. You think even somebody running a marathon, how long did they actually train to be able to do that? Like no one thinks about that stuff.

Ashley (24:21.763)
I think we were talking about that as far as real estate is concerned, right? Like when it comes to social media, people will just see that, you know, agents are posting about their great closing or that they went on vacation or something. And right, we've been in real estate for 10 to 15 years, but someone that's new to real estate thinks that that happens like overnight, right? So it's kind of this misconception just as far as how, what actually happened behind the scenes to get to where you are today.

Steven L Burch (24:51.023)
So your goals scare you, I love that. think your goals, everybody's goals should scare them. What's on the horizon for you?

Ben Argall (25:01.966)
Well right now it is the next development project. It's called the Montreal. It's right behind my brokerage and it's a 12 unit apartment complex. And it's just, so much money and it's just very hard to get everything in order to make it actually feasible. With you thinking about rent and income from that plus the cost of building. So that's one of my big projects. And if I can't make it happen, it's more not can, it's just more when.

So if it has to sit on the back burner until things calm down in the financial world, so be it I'll move on pivot to something else so It's more so picking a project that makes sense at the time and pushing forward with that in Frenchie numbers so

Ashley (25:47.595)
So obviously you've built a thriving real estate team in a short amount of time while also doing your design and development. So can you talk to us kind of about how you balanced all of that?

Ben Argall (26:01.326)
Honestly, I think it was just knowing where I lacked. And that's where one of my biggest a recruits and our business partner kind of came in. So I know that I am horrible at training new agents. I'm not going to argue that like I, I am not good at training. So when I brought on Stephanie, I'm like, I want you to come on as the trainer for the brokerage. And then after three months watching her thrive, I'm like, you need to be owner. You need to have some skin in the game.

And when she came on, like it opened up more time for me to do what I'm passionate about. And it kind of works well because Stephanie also has her passion projects on the side of the real estate. So we both get to own something together and thrive at it and then do our passion projects on the side. So it worked out really well. And with that, our team, we definitely made it a more welcoming brokerage for others. And we've recruited, we have between Stephanie and I.

was nine of us agents and then we had, we hired our first staff person six weeks ago and that was a game changer. Like I can't, I don't know why I waited so long. And it's always that way. think when you take, you know, bring somebody on, it's scary to have payroll. But at the same time, it's like, you don't realize what you don't know until you actually have somebody in the free time. I shouldn't say free time, but just where you can spend time more wisely.

Steven L Burch (27:26.653)
It's working towards your highest and best use. It's making sure that you're working towards your strengths, you're working towards your passion, you're working towards what is actually driving the finances for the company. A lot of times it's not necessarily just the revenue side of things. I know that's what primarily we focus on when we hire somebody, but being able to free you up to be able to have time to go and relax and reset and...

be creative and do those other things that actually recharge you so that when you do come back to the business, you're able to be way more potent and be way more powerful in what your focus is.

Ben Argall (28:08.097)
Yeah. And even now like kind of back focusing on recruiting and it's like, no, I have somebody that can say that we have a TC and house that does everything. Like everybody's eyes like light up because they have no idea what that actually is. Cause no one else up here does that. And so to see Jane thrive doing it and she's so good at it. then you show somebody that's top producer that's doing 40, 50, 60 deals a year. like, if we could save you 20 minutes from each deal with paperwork.

Ashley (28:09.372)
I think.

Ben Argall (28:37.654)
not more, how much time would you have to either A, be on the boat at your lake house or sell more property or be with your family? Like you can definitely, people will think twice and think about coming over to your rural bridge because of that offering.

Steven L Burch (28:53.265)
Man, that sounds like a great way to be able to position that and talk to them about the value of joining your company. Where did you learn that from?

Ben Argall (29:02.158)
Luckily leading lane. I will say a lot of the stuff I implemented in my first year with Next Home was because of leading lane and that proper fast track. I would not be here today without that. Guaranteed.

Ashley (29:05.082)
Thank

Steven L Burch (29:16.477)
I appreciate that. I was more poking fun at you because I wanted to say, told you so, told you so. I don't know how many times, but I did not. So I held it in.

Ben Argall (29:21.71)
Yeah.

Ashley (29:26.126)
been a lot has changed for in the last year as far as you know bringing on Stephanie, bringing on agents, taking on projects. What does leadership look like right now for you?

Ben Argall (29:37.858)
Leadership for me, think is always evolving. Like I look at my roles right now as a broker owner. I'm also the president of the Peninsula Association of Realtors and I'm also on city council, I will say I think being in the realtor world and doing the presidency for UPAR, we had a huge change with our executive retiring after 43 years. And so we have a new executive that's been with us for 10 years, but in a new role.

And I'm looking forward to kind of changing things overall for our association to more tech driven. So use your online payment systems, things like that. So leadership for me is kind of making changes. Not that they're archaic, but just kind of being more progressive and kind of showing the way. don't be afraid of change. I think that's kind of my leadership style. Even at the brokerage level, like we're switching things up. Pretty much we have paperless pipelines and

in .loop now we're switching over to everything skyslope. So don't be afraid of change and kind of showing all my agents that it's possible. And like you just have to grin and bear it and just do it. So kind of lead by example with that. Yeah. And even city, it's just, I don't know. I like being on it. It's, I was nervous. Like I never thought I was going be a politician. It was really.

Ashley (30:50.967)
just going to say, lead by example, took the word right out of my mouth. What is

Ben Argall (31:04.172)
I don't know if it was going to hurt my business or how it was all going to pan out, but I think it was a very good decision on my part. I'm enjoying being more connected to the community and giving back. and maybe it has helped my business. I think I've got a few listings because of being in the public a lot more. but I do like the, we have a new city manager we hired that was part of my platform for running and our new city manager is phenomenal.

And I'm very happy to see where the city is heading and I just as a developer or as a realtor, seeing the house prices and seeing what the city will be in five, 10 years and kind of, you know, show that to my clients is also an easy kind of selling feature for me to sell houses.

Steven L Burch (31:49.117)
I keep on now getting, I'm pulling the Ashley and getting all the questions out now too. So, all right. So looking back to if you were able to talk to 26 year old Ben, what would you tell him?

Ben Argall (31:57.134)
You

Ben Argall (32:10.606)
Can I tell us who every new agent, start a CRM, actually make a database?

I think I would have actually forced myself to do more video work earlier, things like that. Cause I didn't realize how much I would enjoy doing, doing it. So, looking back, you know, 10 years ago, like I think that would have opened so many more doors if I was more confident in who I was and then actually had a database database because I even 11 years in the business, I don't have a good one and I'm finally learning.

how to use a CRM. if I had, because I've sold over 300 houses, like you think of how many clients I've talked to or leaves that I lost because I'm not connecting with them. It's kind of crazy how much my business could have been further. But I don't really dwell on that too much now, but it's just like, as a younger person just starting in the business, I wish I knew the power of that.

Steven L Burch (33:09.489)
What would you, I'm gonna reframe the question. Not just business oriented, not just tools, not just social, not just videos. What would you tell Ben as a person?

Ben Argall (33:13.261)
Okay.

Ben Argall (33:28.43)
Hmm.

Ben Argall (33:34.158)
That's a tough one. In 26, it was actually a year then about my house. It was my first year in real estate. And that was the year that I almost got out of the industry. Because it was my first year. I'm like, this is a hard, hard thing. And I had a job offer in Florida doing design full time in Palm Beach. It would have been fun. So I made a promise to myself that I would do real estate for a full year and see where I ended up.

Steven L Burch (33:54.525)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Argall (34:02.882)
before I make any drastic changes and thank God that I did. Cause I'm here where I am now. So I wouldn't change that. But I also, that same year, I got a phone call from another agent that we had a deal together and she's kind of one that call me just to say, thank you for holding this deal together. You're doing a good job. Cause I think some agents, new agents don't get that reassurance that they're doing the right thing to keep a deal together or just working in their client's best interest.

So to have somebody seasoned with 25 years call you intentionally to say you're doing a good job, for me that was a game changer. But for me, I think I look back and I wish I could have talked to me at a younger age. I think if I was 16 or 17, I wish I would have told myself it's okay to be gay. I think I hid a lot of my potential hiding in the closet and not being who I was until I came out at 19. So even at...

early 20s I had so much catching up to do to find my confidence and I wish I had that at a younger age because I think that would have catapulted me even further now that I realized my passions and what I'm doing and the confidence I have as a person.

Steven L Burch (35:16.379)
Well, thank you for sharing that and being vulnerable because it is tough and being from a small town, not that small, but the small population and just constantly worrying about what other people think and you're not even comfortable. I'm speaking for myself. I wasn't even comfortable in my own skin and didn't even know who I truly was. just it's this whole different

dynamic of once you can actually step into your own authentic self and once you have that confidence in yourself and you start believing in yourself, I think that's where things truly go wild, wild, wild for you because you now don't have any limitations. You already cut through all of those and it's way easier to breathe, right? It's way, you're not constantly looking over your shoulder and worrying of somebody saying something or being bullied or whatever the case may be. So.

Kudos to you. I understand the struggle of being small town America and I understand the struggle of sexuality and so proud of you. Yeah.

Ben Argall (36:24.75)
Yeah, thank you. I mean, I guess I'll kind of piggyback to even, you know, in my 30s, like the TV show, The Inputter Syndrome. They warned you on the show after we left that you're gonna feel all sorts of weird things after you leave production. They weren't wrong. It took me two months to get back to normalcy. And then once the show aired, like I felt like I was an imposter. Like I had, I called a therapist and like, I need help with this. And it took me a while to get used to like,

Steven L Burch (36:49.725)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Argall (36:52.802)
I actually deserved to be on that show and here's why. Instead of being like, I was a fake. So I think even in my 30s and still learning through all those situations and experiences.

Ashley (37:05.29)
I think as we get older too, right, it's the people that we surround ourselves with that help us stay at that level that there is an imposter syndrome or there's someone to kind of bring you back to reality of how great you've done. So I will say that it's who you surround yourself with too that really helps you continue to propel. mean, obviously Stephanie is a fantastic example for you. So it's a matter of finding the right people that believe in you too.

Ben Argall (37:30.446)
100%.

Steven L Burch (37:32.925)
know, it's funny, we did a call last couple of weeks, I don't remember when it was, but Stephanie came into your office while we're on Zoom and she just has this personality, right? Like just this vibrant, amazing personality and energy about her. And I was like, man, I could not even imagine being in your guys' office because we would not get any work done. And you were like, no, no, we actually do work. I'm like, okay, but I'm letting you know I would not be able to work.

so I'm glad that it was just zoom, but I do also love like when we all do get together and just how, it truly is almost like we can all just pick up. Like we have, we're not miles away from what, you know, one another is just like nothing happened and let's keep on going forward and pushing each other and challenging each other. And, so I'm very thankful for meeting Stephanie and thank you for bringing her into our lives. Cause she's a spitfire, man. She's awesome.

Ben Argall (38:29.23)
Well, when she joined, when she became partner, I'm like, well, there's only one requirement, and that is the broker fast track retreat. You have to do this.

Steven L Burch (38:36.817)
Yeah, absolutely.

Ben Argall (38:39.148)
Bye,

Ashley (38:39.175)
I think that was great for her too. That's so great for her too. I just remember her being like, you know, like, my goodness. So I loved watching her reaction.

Steven L Burch (38:46.459)
Yeah.

Ben Argall (38:46.816)
she's like, that should be mandatory for every broker owner out there. Because I mean, I took the Michigan broker course, I caught her on a brokerage and it was, I kind of laughed because I didn't get any value from doing that. Like they don't teach, there's no handbook of how to be a broker owner. And I just kind of, I just won it, you know, it has an independent, you didn't have any franchise support, you know, no having the franchise support, it's even more of a game changer, but it's up to you to.

Steven L Burch (39:15.067)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Argall (39:16.17)
actually meant to be present and be a broker owner and grow a business. Look at it so much so differently than anything else.

Steven L Burch (39:26.407)
Good. We'll use this clip for marketing as well on that. So thank you. Double whammy.

Ben Argall (39:29.409)
Hahaha.

Ashley (39:32.678)
Ben, what is something that you've changed your mind about in the last year, either personally or real estate related?

Ben Argall (39:40.864)
man.

Ben Argall (39:50.61)
I don't know if I have a good answer for that.

Ben Argall (39:57.967)
Well, maybe you can teach old dogs new tricks. That's one thing, like, with all the changes that are happening in real estate in general, but even like bringing on season agents and showing them different ways of doing things. I think I never thought I could see people actually embrace change. So it was always kind of closed minded to that, that people are stuck in their ways. But I think people will actually change when they see the

the results of what change could be.

Ashley (40:29.641)
you put people in the right environment, right? So it is obviously the changes, but it's also the support that you're offering them, right? And I think that that's when you can really see people flourish and, there's same thing, like we've had some agents that I didn't think would make changes or, you know, wouldn't adapt to some of these online things. And here they're out doing lives and they're out doing all this other stuff. And I mean, for me, it's always fun to watch someone do something new and to really just hone into that. But I think like we've talked about, it really comes back to leadership too.

Ben Argall (40:58.338)
Mm-hmm.

Steven L Burch (41:02.363)
waiting for you to have other questions. Are we doing rapid fire now?

Ashley (41:04.973)
Whenever you're ready, I'm ready for rapid fire.

Steven L Burch (41:07.375)
Okay, I'm ready for these because I'm really excited because he has no idea what these questions are. So he's already like moving in his chair, getting uncomfortable. Go for it.

Ben Argall (41:12.78)
Not a clue.

Ashley (41:16.888)
Yeah, I mean, they're like legit all over the place. Okay, you ready? Ready? Okay. Coffee order.

Ben Argall (41:21.356)
Ready.

Ben Argall (41:25.263)
Black coffee. I'm boring. Like I'm a Finlander. Just like honestly I drink a cup, I drink a whole pot a day. Like just give me an ice.

Steven L Burch (41:35.869)
Mm-mm.

Ashley (41:37.262)
Favorite HGTV show besides your own.

Ben Argall (41:41.516)
Honestly, I don't watch any because I love it.

Ashley (41:44.644)
Biggest design pet peeve besides luxury vinyl plank flooring.

Ben Argall (41:51.886)
Ugh, horrible trim. Like, I hate unfinished things.

Ashley (41:55.747)
Dream City to launch a real estate project in.

Ben Argall (42:03.278)
Honestly, where I live right now, there's something about your own community and developing it. Cause I feel like I'm more of a community developer than a developer.

Ashley (42:11.596)
I love that answer. What's the last thing you Googled?

Ben Argall (42:15.79)
What was that? I think it was something about the MEDC is what I googled. I was doing some search and I don't even use Google that much. I use chat more than Google.

Steven L Burch (42:16.093)
Careful.

Ashley (42:17.09)
Do I wanna know? Are we on?

Ashley (42:28.13)
What is the most used app on your phone?

Steven L Burch (42:35.517)
I want to know if this is going to be true.

Ashley (42:39.178)
Yeah, I have a thought, but...

Ben Argall (42:39.182)
Should I pull it off on my phone? It would be wrong because the last two days I had no service being in the Q &A. But normally it's probably a mixture of Facebook, Grindr, and ChatGPT.

Ashley (42:54.592)
I'm gonna call you out if you weren't gonna say it, so...

Ben Argall (42:57.465)
I said it!

Steven L Burch (42:57.757)
Well, I was hoping that you were going to say that it was going to be KVCore after Grindr, but you know, it's okay.

Ben Argall (43:05.006)
I'm still getting there.

Ashley (43:05.032)
Maybe, let's get in there. What is one thing people would be surprised to learn about you?

Steven L Burch (43:06.951)
Ha ha ha.

Ben Argall (43:14.102)
Most people don't know that I play piano. I don't really play publicly, but I took lessons for almost 10 years and I am a professional musician. So sometimes if I'm drunk enough in a public place, I may play something.

Ashley (43:27.85)
We will keep that in mind. What is a go-to pump-up song before a big meeting?

Steven L Burch (43:29.937)
You

Ben Argall (43:36.479)
Usually I just paste the floor.

Ashley (43:41.535)
My favorite quote or personal motto?

Ben Argall (43:46.328)
So I do have a tattoo that says, Fortune and Love, Favour the Brave. On my chest. That was kind of my coming out tattoo when I was 19.

Ashley (43:55.689)
So last one, mountains or beach.

Ben Argall (44:03.223)
no, thanks.

Ashley (44:05.385)
And I saw your waterfall pictures. Those were amazing, by the way.

Ben Argall (44:09.506)
Yeah, I can't believe I hiked 10 miles in like one day, but it was definitely worth it. Thank God for Bugsbury.

Ashley (44:13.407)
Do you a thought?

Ashley (44:17.927)
Was it 90 that day?

Ben Argall (44:20.406)
It was, yeah, actually the first Sunday when we went up there, it was 94 degrees and we went to a waterfall and just swam underneath the falls. But then it was crazy because 10 miles down the road, it was in a bay, it was 59 degrees with the wind off the coast earlier.

Ashley (44:28.741)
awesome.

Ashley (44:35.89)
for me.

Steven L Burch (44:38.535)
Forget all that. Well, Ben, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to hang out with us. And I'm super proud of you, of everything that you have accomplished. I'm honored to know you. I mean, just you're one impressive man. So keep doing amazing things. Keep on rocking out. And I know that nothing but the best is going to be coming your way and continue to come your way. So keep on kicking ass, dude.

Ben Argall (44:39.927)
Hahaha

Ben Argall (45:08.942)
Thank you.

Ashley (45:09.944)
Did super proud of you and I always love spending time with you and looking forward to spending some time with you guys soon.

Steven L Burch (45:16.103)
So if somebody that is listening wants to get in contact with you, how can they reach you?

Ben Argall (45:22.89)
Google me, I show up everywhere.

Steven L Burch (45:24.637)
Well, Mr. Popular. All right.

Ben Argall (45:28.586)
We don't trust the everything from HGTV. They say that I'm worth like two million dollars. I am not. Not yet, anyway.

Steven L Burch (45:36.029)
Hey, own it and rock out with it. That's how I would do it. So, well, again, thank you. appreciate it. And thank you to listeners that are out there. As always, if you want to talk about something, have us talk about something, want to join us, we would love to have you. So please reach out to us. See you next time.